moving out... or not.

[wickedcherub]

So I told my parents I wanted to move out.

My mother started crying almost immediately and said that I couldn't say something like that, and that she'll forget I said it if I just went to bed.

Dad took it personally and said that I really hadn't thought it through and that it was the largest example of a lack of filial piety (a very very loaded word in Vietnamese) he'd ever heard of. Then he said that he gave me three days, if I still wanted to move out, go ahead, but I was never to come back.

Anyway, mum, understandably, asked, 'What made you want to do this?' to which I started explaining, but really, my father should have been a lawyer, not a guy that sorts the mail.

He is KING of rhetorical questions.

Dad: "Tina, let me help you think this through. Do you care about your family?"
Me: "Yes."
Dad: "And when your mother is alone in the evenings and needs help, how will you care for her if you are not at home? How can you look after your family if you leave?"

Dad: "Who looks after you better than me and mum?"
Me: "No one."
Dad: "Then why are you wanting to leave?"
Me: "Because I want to look after myself."
Dad: "You can do that here."

Anyway, Dad took it very very personally. Mum tried to tell me that I could rethink it after I graduated university in a year and a half, but it'd be best to wait until I was married.

I got a lot of 'the outside world is harsh' and 'you cannot abandon your family.'

The biggest sticking point is this notion of filial piety. I've been brought up on the stuff - and I asked for a formal definition tonight, and Dad said, 'we brought you up, and gave you everything, you have to please us.' And it's SUCH a cultural sticking point, where they can't comprehend that I'd not want to please them, and I can't imagine that they'd want that from their children, but it's like talking to a retarded child, no one's understanding what the other person is talking about. Dad tried to explain that by 'pleasing him' all I had to do was study, but that was another point altogether.

Anyway, this whole, 'you leave, you can't come back' thing is really sticking with me because I know he's serious. My father holds some serious grudges. I ask him why he can't still be my father if I left the house, and he asks me how I can still be his daughter if I have.

Then came the big explanation of, 'we tell you off cos we care. we restrict you because we care.' etc etc. As if I didn't know that.

Hmmm.. good things DID come out of this, however. Mum's on major good behaviour now. She's promised not to be emotionally abusive. To stop the sniping comments. She just wants me to stay.

I think I hurt my father a great deal and I feel like I should apologise, but am wondering how to do it so that I'm only apologising for the parts I actually feel sorry for.

That, and my parents eerily know me better than anyone else, my faults and virtues, which is odd for the fact that I never talk to them.

I've yet to decide what to do, but I guess I'll have to leave off the moving out, just for now. At least they now know I was thinking about it. I still wanna keep my dad. I do love him lots.

Comments

[roadtriphome.livejournal.com]

Dude, but your 25. Are they waiting for you to marry before you leave the house? I know some families are like that.

[wickedcherub.livejournal.com]

Yes they are. Because right now, my family looks after each other, and when I get married I'll have a new family who will look after me and vice versa.

Most of the people I know who aren't Anglo-Australian live in families like this and thusly it was such a big deal for me to tell them I wanted to move out.

[roadtriphome.livejournal.com]

Ahhh, then that all makes alot of sense. I wish you luck then. My family varies on the idea of me moving out. Depending on what sort of day it's been.

[dorrie6.livejournal.com]

I always have a lot of sympathy for people who are caught like you are between two cultures, because it is *so* difficult, and nobody should ever have to be in the position of having to choose whether to hurt themselves or to hurt their family. I don't have any deep wisdom to pass on, because I can't pretend to truly understand their thinking. It is so outside my own experience. I just wanted to tell you that I admire the way you are facing this, and I really hope this can be a step forward for you and them, as difficult as that is to imagine right now.

[oohasparklie.livejournal.com]

I don't understand your parents. First your dad kicks you and your brother out and now he's offended because you said you'd actually go? How is that fair? What about your feelings? Maybe you should remind him that he's the one who blindsided you with this in the first place, and if he didn't mean it then maybe he shouldn't say it. It seems that no matter what you do you're in the wrong with them, Tina, and that's just not fair. Don't let them make you feel that way.

[kahvi-elf.livejournal.com]

One of my best RL friends is a Polish immigrant. She's the only daughter and making her phd at uni. But her parents didn't want her to move out. It was a constant quarrel. When a flat in the house they live in became vacant they rented it for her. So she only moved out half way. She just needs to go downstairs to help her mum, but she can retreat to her own flat. Not ideal but it helped her a bit. Still her parents comments are very paradox about her life. On the one hand she should find a husband and have kids soon (she's 30 already, soon no one will want her anymore *gosh*) but on the other hand they proudly tell everyone that her daughter is getting an academic title. This lead to her being really desperate and having one bad relationship after another. Now she starts to believe that 'you won't find the right one now that you are so old' *headdesk* At least her parents won't insist on her marring a compatriot. As long as he's not a muslim or coloured and has a well paid job she can marry him :-/

[contrariwise.livejournal.com]

I've been reading your posts on this and I'm confused... didn't your dad start this off by basically kicking you out? But now that you're actually going, he's upset?

[wickedcherub.livejournal.com]

Yeah, but I always knew he wasn't serious. :\

[freesnowcone.livejournal.com]

I completely understand. Which is very strange for an American (with absolutely no strong familial ties to any sort of culture) to say about something like this, but I do. When I told my mother a few years ago that I was going to move out, not just to go away to college but to go away, period, she wouldn't speak to me for a month, and my father kept telling me what a bad idea it was, how I'd never make it, how I was better off to stay home... You get the picture.

I give you huge kudos for having the guts to even bring up the topic of moving out. Maybe you're still stuck living at home for the moment, but at least, like you said, now they know.

[txvoodoo.livejournal.com]

Apologizing like that may...well, may give the appearance of being better, but it doesn't solve anything. Resentment remains.

Have you ever tried writing letters to them? I find it very effective when you're in a situtation where face-to-face leads to lots of rhetorical nonsense and questions you can't answer at that moment, and where you're likely to be emotionally manipulated and do the same back.

You don't write to argue - you write to explain your perspective.

I know that culturally, the filial piety is your roots. But they moved to Australia for many reasons, and I'm sure one of them was to change the ways in which you lived - and your acceptance of and acculturation in western cultures shows that they were successful. By explaining this to them, in terms like that, perhaps they can see how they've been excellent parents, and that you're an excellent daughter, taking the next steps in your life.

MANY MANY hugs.

[kahvi-elf.livejournal.com]

"and your acceptance of and acculturation in western cultures shows that they were successful. By explaining this to them, in terms like that, perhaps they can see how they've been excellent parents, and that you're an excellent daughter, taking the next steps in your life."
I made the experience that many immigrants to countries with "western culture" only acculturate the traits lifestyle as far as they don't interfere with the most valued aspects of their own culture.
I know women from the near east&northern Africa who don't have to wear headscarfs and wear thight jeans and make up. They study at uni (that the parents chose, close to home of course) and get good jobs (again close to home). But they are still not allowed to go out in the evening without a male relative and later on not without their husband.

[txvoodoo.livejournal.com]

Yah - you can see my next comment for how even in my culture, some very antiquated customes remain, even over 100 years after my family arrived in the U.S. ;) These things take time - but it only chanes with little steps forward.

[txvoodoo.livejournal.com]

BTW, fwiw, the filial piety thing isn't unique to Asian cultures :D In Sicilian familes, the oldest daughter's role is supposed to be that of caretaker. She's supposed to not marry, to stay and care for the parents.

This has some weird results. There are a lot of unmarried aunts living with other family members in later years. My godmother is one who stayed with her mother and never married. She also never had sex ;) She said to me recently "If I'd known that I was NEVER going to marry, I would have broken down and had sex before I got old and dried up, just so I'd know what it was like."

My mom was the oldest daughter, and her mother was FURIOUS when she got a job with the foreign service and went to live in Spain. And then, when she married my father while over there, my grandmother took the part of her money which would have gone to my mother, and bought herself carpets with it, in protest. She never really reconciled to my father because of that.

And even me, 37 years younger than my mother - I'm an only child. I can recriminations for not living closer - even though my mother KNOWS that we maintain our best relationship with a thousand or so miles in between us.

Parents are fun, yo.

[ffarff.livejournal.com]

i don't know how you live with it. stuck between two cultures that clash so much. ultimatums are not good. its a threat but under pretence of 'doing whats good for you' that you cant ignore.
hopefully home life will be a bit easier now for you. Home should always feel like sanctuary.

[o-chan.livejournal.com]

ok.
I got a lot of 'the outside world is harsh' and 'you cannot abandon your family.'
The outside world IS harsh. But frankly, you have to learn now when your parents ARE still around and you have someone to fall back on when you make mistakes. If you don't learn when they're around, how are you suppose to cope when suddenly your parents are gone. I've always found that the best way to learn is to be chucked into the deep end. When you make mistakes, you learn from it, your parents encourage you more and pick you back up.

Speaking from experience, it's not easy to be independent, that's for sure. I've been pretty much independent since I was 14, looking after myself when my parents are overseas. There's a lot of times where I cry from frustrations of too much responsibility. And there are many times which I wish I had a carefree life and get my parents to take care of me. But what they need to understand is that you're not trying to abandon them, you need to learn on your own sometimes, even if it's just for a month or two. And from there you WILL realise how greatful it is to have your parents around. But at least you will know what you can expect from life without your parents holding your hands the whole way through. Because, as much as we'd like them to be around forever, it doesn't happen like that.

I don't know... I mean, I get what you're saying about this whole filial piety thing. And it is a hard situation. They are doing this to you because they do love you, I don't doubt that. And I'm not forcing you to move out or anything, but what they've done, as ffarff said is, made you an ultimatum. One that, by the looks of it, will make both parties always on edge. I also, do agree on making them a letter. Arguing never ends up the way you think. Temper gets in the way, and you don't end up saying things the way you're supposed to. Just explain to them what you need and how yuo feel, and even if it's you at home and just leaving you alone for a week, at least they'll know that you're doing this to abandon them.

[seshat1.livejournal.com]

You are an amazing daughter and sister, more caring than ANYONE i know irl or online. I know your dad doesn't understand - is it worth explaining how the note the other day made you feel? That that's why you started to think about it seriously?

I don't know. You've been so eloquent, even though you do not know what you want to do, in your LJ posts - could you print a version of those for them to read? Sometimes it's harder for people to interrupt if they're reading and you'll get your point across.

To be honest, I don't know if this is remotely near what you want to do, but I figure it can't hurt to suggest it. I hope that whatever you do, it works out for you. ♥